Discussion with P. P. Kaka Maharaj, December, 2011 - Part 2

On December 16^th, 2011, the editor of this blog had the good fortune to spend several hours with P. P. Kaka Maharaj at his home in Nashik, India and to engage him in a discussion on Maha Yoga.  We were joined by P. P. Prabhune Maharaj and Shri Nikhil Prabhune, both from Nashik, India.  Despite his advancing age, P. P. Kaka Maharaj continues to remain as enthusiastic as ever about communicating with Sadhaks and in spreading the message of Maha Yoga to everyone on this earth.  Following is the second part of the translated and edited excerpts from that discussion.  This discussion was originally published in the February 2012 issue of P. P. Kaka Maharaj's quarterly e-newsletter, Self Awakening, past issues of which are archived at http://mahayoga.org/selfawakening.htm.

Editor: That brings me to a related issue; why is Maha Yoga Prasar (spreading the word about Maha Yoga) so important?  If some people do not even want to listen to what it is about, and some of those who do, might not even want to try it, then why bother with Prasar?

Gurudev: Because we want as many people as possible become aware of the oneness of us all.  That is the basis of the Advaita philosophy, and we would like as many people as possible to actually experience it.  Maha Yoga is an easy way to experience this oneness, but we also accept all other religions and schools of thought that teach the oneness of all of us on this earth. 

Editor: That is clearly an excellent reason for Prasar, the goal of having everyone on this earth experience a sense of universal brotherhood/sisterhood.  But even in our Maha Yoga tradition, (which can be traced in recent times to P. P. Swami Gangadhar Tirth Maharaj in the mid-19^th century), there have been some stalwarts who have not focused much on Prasar.  They have had the attitude that there is no point in trying to get everyone to understand Maha Yoga and to experience it; whoever is fit for Maha Yoga will find out about it, and will meet the right Siddha Guru to get initiated into it.  They did not want to develop large followership; they were content just to initiate those who sought them.

Prabhune Maharaj: That is correct.  Some have had the attitude: “Hame dal nahi badhana hai” (“we do not want to increase the ranks” in Hindi).

Gurudev: Yes, that was true to a certain extent; P. P. Swami Gangadhar Tirth Maharaj is known to have had only one disciple, P. P. Swami Narayan Tirth Dev, and there have been others in the past who were not engaged in Prasar. 

Prabhune Maharaj: But even P. P. Swami Gangadhar Tirth Maharaj told his only disciple, P. P. Swami Narayan Tirth Dev that he has been given the amazing gift of Maha Yoga and that he expects it to spread all over the world.  So even though P. P. Swami Gangadhar Tirth Maharaj himself did not conduct Prasar, he made it happen through the efforts of his disciple P. P. Swami Narayan Tirth Dev.

Gurudev: And further, my Guru, P. P. Loknath Tirth Swami Maharaj was instructed by his Guru, P. P. Swami Shankar Purushottam Tirth Maharaj to go from Kashi in north India to the southern parts of India.  Why was he so instructed?  Only to spread the word about Maha Yoga to those regions.  Once he arrived there he met Shri Vaman Gulvani who became one of his disciples and who we know as P. P. Gulvani Maharaj.  As you know, P. P. Gulvani Maharaj was instrumental in spreading the message of Maha Yoga all over the southwest part of India and beyond.

Editor: I suppose Prasar has been the intent of all Siddha Gurus in our tradition, but some seem to have emphasized it more than others.  On a related matter, some Maha Yoga stalwarts have given Shaktipat Deeksha (Maha Yoga initiation with the transfer of energy from Guru to disciple) only to those Sadhaks they consider as deserving, while others have given such Deeksha to most of those who have asked.  Is there any concern that as we attempt to bring Maha Yoga to every one on this earth, even “undeserving” Sadhaks might get initiated? 

Gurudev: Our answer is that everybody who is mature enough to think for himself is eligible for receiving Shaktipat Deeksha.  When a Sadhak asks for Deeksha and accepts the conditions for receiving it, the Deeksha process gets started. What happens after that is in the hands of God, i.e. the Chaitanya Shakti (Universal Life Energy).  I just tell Sadhaks to sit for Deeksha and whether Deeksha happens or not and what types of Kriyas (automatic physical and mental activities) happen is entirely in the hands of God (Ishwari Shakti).   Who am I to decide whether one Sadhak deserves to receive Deeksha but another one doesn’t?  It is between the Sadhak and the Ishwari Shakti.  We do not ask or urge Sadhaks to receive Deeksha at all.  We simply want to inform everyone what Maha Yoga is all about, and that it is available to all regardless of the superficial differences of religion, class, creed, gender, social status, caste, etc. that divide us.  It is up to the individual to do with that information whatever he wants.  We have no interest in increasing followership at all.  We are just the messengers.  It is the Ishwari Shakti which is the doer.

Prabhune Maharaj: Our principle for Prasar is very simple.  We think we have found something good, something that brings calmness and bliss to all practitioners.  And it does not require anything external for a Sadhak to practice it.  It does not cost anything, nor does one need to forsake one’s religion, career, family, etc.  All we want to do is to share with everyone that this gift is available to all for the asking.

Editor: And you have to do this sharing without your ego getting involved, without any desire to build a followership.  I think that aspect of Prasar is very important.

Prabhune Maharaj: That’s exactly correct.  One should not get involved in Prasar to boost followership or to boost one’s ego.  That is completely counter to the tenets of Maha Yoga. 

It is interesting though, that over the past few years, the Mother Energy seems to have become more active and seems to want to increase the ranks of those who’s Prana Shakti has become activated.  Even a Maha Yoga stalwart such as P. P. Swami Shivom Tirth Maharaj (who departed from this world a couple of years ago - Editor), who was quite selective in granting Deeksha throughout his tenure as a Shaktipat Guru, urged his disciples when he was bedridden to share the gift of Maha Yoga generously with Sadhaks.

Gurudev: It is as if someone has brought me several boxes of Pedhas (Indian sweets) and I want to share them with others.  Is that a wrong thing to do?  I don’t think so.

Prabhune Maharaj: One other thing I would like to emphasize; we never urge or suggest to people that they receive Deeksha (initiation).  In fact whenever I give talks on Maha Yoga I never talk about Deeksha.  I only explain what Maha Yoga is all about and ask people to sit and try out the Introductory Approach to Maha Yoga.  After the talk is over and the attendees have actually experienced the calmness that comes from having sat for the Introductory Approach, sometimes people gather around me and ask about what there is beyond the Introductory Approach.  Only then do I let them know about Deeksha.  But even then I simply let them know that such a thing as Deeksha is available.  I never suggest that they should sign up for it or urge them in any way to seek it.

Gurudev: In fact, some people even show signs of the Prana Shakti having become activated even when they sit for practicing the Introductory Approach!  The Introductory Approach is not formal Deeksha, but when a Sadhak practices it sometimes the Mother Energy becomes automatically activated.  This has nothing to do with me.  It is entirely between the Sadhak and the Prana Shakti.

There are also cases where Deeksha happens automatically.  For example, we had a gatekeeper here who asked for and received Deeksha one day.  When he returned home that day he had with him a piece of paper which began with the traditional note of reverence and respect for the Guru “Shri, Shri Gurave Namaha”.  When his wife saw the paper and simply read the salutation to the Guru she immediately began to have Kriyas (involuntary actions) and Deeksha happened.  I did not have anything to do with it.  It was between her and the Prana Shakti.  The Prana Shakti within her had gotten activated automatically and the Deeksha just happened.  Ishwari Shakti, or the Divine Power, is the only authority which decides who gets initiated and who doesn’t.  Maha Yoga Deeksha is really an Ishwari Deeksha (Divine Deeksha); it is the Almighty’s Deeksha, not mine.  P. P. Loknath Tirth Swami Maharaj used to refer to it as Bhagwati Deeksha (Lord’s Deeksha); P. P. Gulvani Maharaj used to call it Devachi Deeksha (God’s Deeksha).  I have no idea what causes Deeksha to happen, all I know is that it happens.  It “happens”, it is not “done”.  My hope is that at some point everyone on this earth will be able to experience it.

Editor: In an earlier discussion you had described your role as that of a postman, simply delivering the mail that was sent to the Sadhak.

Gurudev: That is correct, I see myself as a postman, or someone who is delivering newspapers.  I hope the person for whom the newspaper was intended to be delivered reads it; but if some others also read it and get something out of it, so much the better!  I have absolutely no idea who reads the newspaper once it is delivered.  It is between the reader and the newspaper.

Prabhune Maharaj: If P. P. Kaka Maharaj wouldn’t mind, I would like to go back to the issue that was raised earlier about whether a Sadhak should be evaluated for being deserving or not before being granted Deeksha. 

As Sant Tukaram Maharaj (17^th century Indian saint) has said, “Loha Parisachi Na Sahe Upma, Sadguru Mahima Agadhachi”.  This means: the analogy of a Paris (touch-stone) turning iron into gold falls far short of what happens between a Guru and a Sadhak; compared to a touch-stone, the true Guru’s greatness is infinite. 

It is one thing for the touchstone to turn iron into gold, but what if the material is copper instead of iron.  A Sadguru (true Guru) not only turns iron into gold but he can also turn anything, even copper, into gold.  There are Gurus who will wait for the copper to somehow turn into iron before they turn it into gold.  But, P. P. Kaka Maharaj’s approach is, “Why wait?  I will let Deeksha happen even to copper or anything else.  Regular Sadhan (Maha Yoga meditation) will convert anyone into iron, and when that conversion happens, the Sadhak will right away turn into gold!”  His issue is, “Who am I to decide who is deserving of Deeksha and who is not; if someone comes to me and earnestly requests Deeksha I will grant it to him, and with regular Sadhan, when the time is right he will achieve self-realization”.

Gurudev: That is why Tukaram Maharaj said “Yare, yare sare jan” (Come everyone).  He did not say, “Only you come, not others”.  He asked the world to come with him.  The whole world is “Deva-swaroop” (Godly form), because the Prana Shakti is in everyone.

Editor: Going back to the issue of Prasar.  As Prabhune Maharaj had said earlier, we do Prasar but it has to be done without the involvement of our egos.  But it often becomes difficult for Sadhaks to keep their egos out of the picture.  For example, if a Sadhak gives a short speech on Maha Yoga and has the audience sit for a few minutes to practice the Introductory Approach Sadhan, and a few people in the audience begin to experience automatic Kriyas.  Even without realizing it explicitly, the Sadhak might get the sense that “Wow, it is because of me that these people are actually experiencing Maha Yoga”.   Or a Sadhak gets questions from others about issues related to Maha Yoga and he gives answers to those questions that result in helping others spiritually and they thank the Sadhak for his advice.  This might make the Sadhak feel, “Wow, I am actually helping others on their spiritual journey”.  This sense of “Me” and “I” often arises in the minds of Sadhaks involved in Prasar.  I can tell you that it happens from my personal experience as well.  So, do you have any advice for those of us in the Sadhak community who are involved in Prasar on how we can minimize the involvement of our egos in this activity?

Gurudev: What you say is correct, but there is no easy cure for it.  There are two ways to think about what happens in such situations.  The first is “I am the doer” and the second is “the awakened Shakti (Mother Energy) is the doer”.  If a Sadhak believes that he is the doer, there is no doubt that Prasar will only result in boosting his ego.  But, if the Sadhak keeps the perspective that the Shakti is the doer; that his own actions as well as the Kriyas (actions) that the audience experiences are all the work of the Shakti and not his own, then his ego will not grow.  If he begins to realize that Prasar is itself a form of Sadhan; that it “happens” because of the Shakti, and does not get “done” by him, his spiritual growth will not be negatively affected, in fact it will get accelerated.

But you are correct, it is difficult for many Sadhaks to realize that Kriyas happen not only when they sit for Sadhan but also in what happens outside of Sadhan.  The awakened Prana Shakti can make all your actions seem like Kriyas if you have the right attitude and let her be the doer.  It is very difficult to let go of one’s ego, but we should always try to remember that it is the Almighty’s power that is getting things done; we are simply the tools being used.  It is the Shakti doing these things; not you, not you, not you!

Prabhune Maharaj: One thing we also have to keep in mind is the fact that the Shakti is not ours; it has been handed down over the millennia within our Parampara (Maha Yoga tradition and lineage).  It is not the Shakti of an individual, but it is the Shakti that arises from Shiva.  She is the doer, not any individual, nor even any of the stalwarts and Siddha Gurus in our or in any other Maha Yoga tradition and lineage.